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Topic: Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death ? (Read 236 times)

Anon
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Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death ?
« Thread Started on Sept 13, 2006, 1:38pm »

I'm just curious ...

Many religions teach that it was the woman who brought forth sin and death to mankind even though the bible makes it plain that the ground ( earth ..mankind ) was cursed because of Adam.

Did eve die because she sinned herself or was it because she was part of the whole body unto GOD ( 1/2 part Eve - 1/2 part Adam since she was taken or made from him ) and received this death sentence beause of Adam since you need two parts to be complete.

And if she was accountable for herself and died beause she partook of the Sin unintentionally, then why did we only need to replace the male (Adam ) as a sacrifice and not the woman also ?

Not sure if this is coming across in the thought that it is intended.

In short ... Did Eve die because she sinned or did she die because she had to follow her husband into death since He was responsible for Her?

just wondering ...

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melancholymuse
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Re: Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death
« Reply #1 on Sept 13, 2006, 3:14pm »

This is my take on the situation:

Adam takes the blame for sin because he wasn't deceived like Eve was (1 Timothy 2:14).

I believe Eve had to die anyway because she wasn't repentant of her transgression. Although she was deceived, she still sinned because she still acted against God's command. She was aware of the command because she even told it to the serpent. If you read the account at Genesis chapter 3, you see that she didn't apologize for anything, she instead played the blame game ("the serpent made me do it...."). So even though she was deceived, she was still sinning.

As a parallel example: If Joe lied and told me that John took my $100 bill, so I sneak into John's wallet and take back $100 (thinking it was mine), I've still committed the sin of stealing even though I was tricked into it. I should have gone to John directly and asked him about it (and Eve should have gone to God directly to ask) instead of taking action behind his back.

Aside from all that, the fact that she listened to the idea of being able to know as much as God showed that she was rejecting God as her guide -- she wanted to do it herself, independent of Him. I consider this rejection as a sin too.

Anyway, that's my take on it. #2cent#

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Seek ye Jehovah while he may be found; call ye upon him while he is near (Isaiah 55:6, ASV)

archangel
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Re: Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death
« Reply #2 on Sept 22, 2006, 4:42pm »

Hi people!

My understanding is this: it was Adam who was given the warning about the trees (Gen. 2:16,17) before Eve was created (Gen 2:18 to 25). So Adam passed on the information to Eve. So whose fault was it that Eve's understanding of the warning differed from the original? We are not told. In Chapter 3:1 to 7 the 'fall' is described. Eve's head was turned, for sure (Gen. 3:6) but the same verse tells us that when Eve tasted the fruit, her husband is with her. He is the one who received the original commandment, yet he did nothing - said nothing. God had given Adam rule over the animals (Gen. 1:28) and was involved in naming them (Gen. 2:19, 20). Yet with all this, Adam made the deliberate choice to join his wife in sin rather than to stay in fellowship with God. Adam tried to blame his wife before God (Gen. 3:12) but God clearly places the blame for sin upon Adam (Gen. 3:17 to 19) and included in his condemnation that fact that Adam's sin happened 'because he listened to his wife.'

That's why in the New Testament, it is Adam who is responsible for sin. #singinrain#

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God is light: in him there is no darkness at all

freeman
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Re: Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death
« Reply #3 on Sept 24, 2006, 4:13pm »

Hello All,

I wonder would Adam and Eve have been forgiven if they repented of their actions or was the loss of everlasting life automatic once the deed was done?

freeman

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Anon
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Re: Sin ... who was responsible for mankind death
« Reply #4 on Sept 24, 2006, 11:57pm »

Our GOD is one of Love and Compassion ... I fully believe that if they would have asked for forgiveness, things would have worked out differently.

The fact remains that Adam new for sure what He was doing .. instead of forgiveness he tried to put the blame on his wife as was mentioned before ... trying to hide the matter and in so doing , he was deceiving GOD and there by partaking of evil or the Devil.

As was mentioned before .. the MAN received his commandments directly from GOD , he was in the headship position .. not the woman.... this is very significant.

Did Eve really not trust GOD or did she not trust her husband ... many times when one hears a situation one doesn't believe it until one gets it from the direct source.... since Satan posed the question ( is it really so ) he was in-fact putting doubts and mistrust into the womans head concerning her husbands regulations.

It was only the MAN that received this commandment...
Genesis 2... NASB

16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;

17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

18Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

As was mentioned before and as you can see, Eve wasn't even around when all of these things were pronounced .

Sin is everything that has to do with deception and the partaking of lies.. did Eve do this ?

Lets look at this a little closer ...

What was the womans judgment and was she personally responsible for mankind's future death ?...

GOD said that Eve was ignorant ... she was unintentionally ignorant and partook of something other than the truth ...that which was explained to her by her husband but when GOD asked her about it , what did she do ? Did she try and hide the fact ?... and what exactly was her judgment in doing so according to GOD.

Lets take a look at the following scriptures, in a figurative symbolic way ......

Genesis 3 .. NIV
16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.
( spiritually speaking ).. God makes it clear that there will be much anguish and suffering in giving life ( bringing forth spiritual children ) unto GOD.
Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
A yearning to be one or whole again ( head and body united ) those in superior positions will be above you...

The problem is that with this judgment .. I don't directly see a death sentence ... but now lets look at GODs reply to Adam.

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
(Ground , soil, earth ) all representing mankind and this is cursed because of Adam )
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
Those who take the lead will labor in vain and have affliction in getting results. ( thorns and thistles ) these representing apostates and those who oppose GOD and these will be the result of his labor.
and you will eat the plants of the field.
( not the bread of heaven that gives life ) but dry and fruitless things... this denoting things that do not give nourishment ( things that are ready to die ( as in false teachers who do not have the spirit of life ).

19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food
until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken;
for dust you are and to dust you will return."
Groping, searching and working hard for spiritual food until you go back to your heritage and die. You are man ( and not spirit ) and you will return from were you were taken.

As I said before :
Eve was not anointed and complete ... inspired as Adam was , she did not have all of Jehovah's spirit within her, she was never anointed with the breath of life like Adam was ... she was taken ( born ) and ( she was not created separate but was part of him and in so received life through him) and became whole through him.

There is another Scripture that all of us know and maybe a few of us have thought about ..

And EVE became the mother of all Living ...
aside from looking at this literally.. what would we understand if we looked at this figuratively.

Who are the living ..... ( these are those that make up the bride of Christ ) .

The headship position ( Adams) that the Jewish system held before Christs arrival did absolutely nothing to bring about mankind's spiritual life and restoration to GOD .... these were spiritually dead and brought death to all who listened to them..... until GOD sent a part of His true perfect spirit ( the one half .. Headship aka. Christ ) to be united with the other half ( the woman .. bride ) once again and these in return bring forth in time the complete Holy Body unto GOD.

The woman ( Christs spiritual bride .. true believers ) did not arrive or were born ..created ... until His presence and these have over the centuries been Incorporated in a literal way by the churches of Christianity ... although these were misguided ... in no way are these true followers fully responsible for their actions since these are weaker in the sense that their spiritual husbands ( those in headship positions over the churches) are intentionally deceiving them, the body or congregations of the LORD with their lies and deceptions.

It is the Man in GODs image that sinned ( He had to be replaced ) not the woman ...... Eve is the Mother of all Living she had to follow Adam into death ( not the other way around ).. but spiritual life and some perfection was found in her.

Yes Eve died , she was half of what it took to be completely perfect , we all die because GODs spirit is not complete in any of us only when that which is complete arrives will we once again be whole.... we are not yet perfect .. are we ?

just 2 more cents

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jamie
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Re: Sin ... who was responsible for mankinds death
« Reply #5 on Sept 25, 2006, 8:19am »

clear as mud

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