|  Author | Topic: The Great Tribulation (Read 1,117 times) |
Libby
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|  | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #45 on Feb 6, 2006, 6:55pm » | ![[Quote]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) |
Quote:| I hope I explained myself clearly |
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Crystal clear.
Thanks, Libby
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The mountain tops are glorious...But it's in the valleys I grow!…….Jane Eggleston
http://www.llerrah.com/dreams.htm
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warmthofthesun
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| | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #46 on Apr 26, 2006, 12:39pm » | |
I invite everyone to read this article. It is 5 parts and pretty long, but it is very interesting. I came upon it the other day.
http://www.harvestherald.com/ltruindex.htm
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Libby
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| | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #47 on Apr 26, 2006, 6:10pm » | |
Hi Warmth,
#laugh# We seem to be reading the same sites. I'd been avoiding this article -- there's so much to study; but I was very impressed with the "While Men Slept" article and had posted a link to it in the thread about belonging to a church.
And the 100 reasons for a unitarian faith from that site was recently posted on another forum where I've been dialoguing with a couple of unitarians. The scriptures you provided on that other thread sure came at the right time!
This article seems to take the view that the abomination that causes desolation was the Roman armies when they surrounded Jerusalem -- that seems unusual unless their standing in a holy place meant the land itself rather than the temple.
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The mountain tops are glorious...But it's in the valleys I grow!…….Jane Eggleston
http://www.llerrah.com/dreams.htm
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warmthofthesun
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| | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #48 on Apr 27, 2006, 11:23am » | |
Hi Libby,
I posted on "Christian Discussions" and "Paradise Cafe" about this, but Ill paste it over here. Let me know what you think.
POST 1
Here is something I put forth on the board.
How LONG is the Great Tribulation that Jesus spoke about?
We know that there was A Great Tribulation that took place in 70CE. We know that just as Jesus said, the "abomination that causes desolation" was interpreted for us at Luke 21 as the Roman armies that surround Jerusalem.
Matthew 24
15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
is thus intepreted
Luke 21
20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
But have you ever noticed that the Great Tribulation can be interpreted as well
Matthew 24
21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.
Luke 21
22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Can we not see that The Great Tribulation is one and the same as The Times of the Gentiles?
Another question -- If the Time of The Gentiles began in 70CE, when did they end? DID THEY END?
Consider Pauls words at Romans 11
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
Paul says Israel had experienced a hardeining in heart UNTIL all the Gentiles had come in.
Consider Jesus words at Matthew 23
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
and again let's look at Luke one last time
Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
When did Jerusalem stop being trampled on?
POST 2
Ok here is some of the research I did yesterday. I want to speak about what the "Man of Lawlessness" is according to the Bible. Another words, do the scriptures interpret themselves here?
Consider the following examples.
For starters Paul tells those at Thessonica not to be alarmed or quickly shaken that Christ's return is here, and then references something that they must have been familiar with as reassurance that certain things must take place prior to Christ's return. What was he referring to?
PAUL is referencing DANIEL.
Paul
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Daniel
45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.
Paul
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Daniel
36 "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.
Paul
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
Daniel
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
PAUL is referencing JESUS in his olivet discourse
(recorded at Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21)
Paul
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Jesus (in Matthew)
23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
Paul
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
Jesus (in Matthew)
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
But why is this interesting? Because Jesus was ALSO referencing Daniel 11 and 12. Consider these examples.
Jesus (in Matthew)
15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Daniel
31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
Jesus (in Matthew)
21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.
Daniel
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.
Jesus (in Matthew)
24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.
Daniel
32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.
Jesus (in Luke)
There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations.
Daniel
33 though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered.
Is it not clear that Paul is referencing Daniel and Jesus? Is it not clear that Jesus is referencing Daniel as well?
Therefore the Man of Lawlessness must clearly be connected to the King of the North. Not only that, Jesus' words at Matthew and Luke need to be looked at again as far as the beggining of their fulfillment because Luke 21 interprets what the "disgusting thing of Daniel is"
"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
What are the implications? Can we gain more insight from Revelation 13?
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Sammy
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| | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #49 on Jun 23, 2008, 10:45pm » | |
More than a yr has passed since the last post on this thread and I think we are not any closer to the end than we were back then.
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Sammy
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| | Re: The Great Tribulation
« Reply #50 Yesterday at 10:51am » | |
Well now it has been a yr and a half since my last post . we are no closer, nor did I get an answer. Is anyone here anymore? Where is Libby?
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